In this episode of Perspectives, host Ruairi Doyle sits down with Adi Ignatius, long-time Editor-in-Chief and now Editor-at-Large at Harvard Business Review, to explore leadership in an era of "hyper uncertainty" and the evolving needs of the modern C-suite. Adi shares his perspective on the changing nature of business journalism and why clarity, trust and practical value matter more than ever in today’s crowded content landscape.
The conversation introduces HBR Executive, a new platform from HBR designed specifically for senior executives. Adi walks us through the vision, key features—including newsletters, masterclasses, playbooks and live events—and how it fills a gap in executive education by delivering concise, evidence-based insights for leaders navigating complexity.
He also reflects on memorable lessons from some of the world’s most influential CEOs, including Jack Welch’s philosophy on ownership and Satya Nadella’s view that empathy is the foundation of innovation, as well as other standout moments in his illustrious career – like a rare interview with Vladimir Putin for TIME Magazine. Whether you’re leading a business, building your leadership toolkit or curious about the future of executive learning, this episode offers valuable insight from someone at the center of business thought leadership.
Also available on Spotify and Apple Podcasts
Transcript
Ruairi Doyle
[00:00:00] Hi everyone, and welcome to a new episode of The Perspectives Podcast. I am your host, Ruairi Doyle, and I'm here to help us dive into the latest trends and ideas in technology and publishing together with incredible guests. Whether you're an industry pro, a curious learner, or just looking for some inspiration, you are in the right place.
Today's guest is someone who has shaped the way leaders think about strategy, innovation, and the workplace for more than a decade. Adi Ignatius is the Editor-at-Large of Harvard Business Review previously its Editor-in-Chief for 16 years. Under his leadership, HBR has expanded its global influence, embraced digital transformation and overseen major shifts both in media and business.
Before joining HBR, Adi had an impressive career as the deputy managing editor at Time Magazine as the editor of Time Asia, and as a foreign correspondent and bureau chief in Beijing and Moscow for the Wall Street Journal. Throughout his career, he has interviewed some of the most influential business figures worldwide.
HBR itself is 103 years old, having been first founded in 1922. Today we're talking about what has fueled HBR's longevity, how to stay relevant in an era where business insights are freely shared online and what's next — including the upcoming launch of HBR Executive, a new premium subscription tier built for C-Suite leaders.
Adi, you're very welcome to perspectives. It's great to have you here. Greetings from a rainy west coast of Vancouver in Canada. Whereabouts in the world are you joining us from?
Adi Ignatius
[1:36] Thanks Ruairi. I am in Connecticut now in a house that's older than HBR even. I spend about half the week each week up in Boston where our offices are and the rest of the time here.
Ruairi Doyle
[1: 49] I'm really looking forward to this conversation. You've had an incredible career from being a foreign correspondent to leading HBR through one of the most transformative periods in media. 16 years is a long time at the helm of any publication, let alone one as influential as HBR. So, let's start there.
Looking back at your tenure as Editor-in-Chief, what do you think has been HBR's biggest transformation under your leadership? Was, is there a moment where you realized, okay. We've really changed the game here.
Adi Ignatius
[2:21] I had a 16-year tenure as Editor-in-Chief really, which ended just a few weeks ago. And I took on a new role I'm really excited about as Editor-at-Large. I guess the clear legacy was that we grew the publication and really broadened the audience. I mean, HBR 16 years ago was mostly just a print magazine. The quote of the realm was, long, like, really long articles that were, that were great, but not for everybody.
So, the trick was how in a digital age to protect what made the brand valuable – which is that what we published is research-based and it's evidence-based and it's proven and that requires long form often – but to bring that into a modern age where there are various expressions to kind of reach people where they are and to, to grow an audience.
So I think we modernized the publication. I think we democratized it. People who thought HBR was just not for them, was too daunting or off-putting, realized that, no, wait a minute, this is about businesses and I'm in a business. This is about how people interact and I'm, I'm a people. And so I think, I think that was it.
It was really to make the brand more accessible, but without ruining what made it special.
Ruairi Doyle
[3:46] Last night I was digging around to find some of my own HBR favorites. My house is being renovated, so it was a little bit of a challenge, but I was able to dig out some of the titles that I've picked up over the years, including HBR on Leadership, on Managing People. Leadership Lessons from Sports was another one that I picked up. I'm quite into how sports can influence leaders, and I'm definitely one of those people who comes by every so often and picks up one of those seminal articles like the seven or six different leadership styles and shares it with my colleagues or people that I'm working with.
HBR is built on big ideas, many of which go on to shape management thinking globally. What are, what are the signals that indicate to you that an idea has real staying power and, and how do you decide that it's time for HBR to weigh in on one of these topics?
Adi Ignatius
[4:44] I have to say before I answer that I know that you're, you're in Canada right now. You mentioned HBR on leadership lessons from sports. I'm a big Ovechkin fan. I don't know if that's fighting words now that he's overtaken great Gretzky for the all-time whistle. So, if you wanna get something going, I'm happy to take that off.
But yeah, look, I mean, HBR will not be the first publication to tell you about something. We will not introduce you to the concept of AI or generative AI. When quantum computing becomes something that leaders generally are talking about and applying, you're not gonna read about that first with us. You're gonna read about these technologies and these developments from us when they've reached a kind of critical period where managers need to know, like every manager needs to know.
So, AI is a great example where it became clear pretty quickly with generative AI – after, the jet GPT launch – pretty quickly that companies needed to deal with that. Companies needed to adapt to it. It was an opportunity. It still is.
So, I'd say we get feedback loops from our readers. We get feedback and we have feedback groups with our authors. We're reading the business press and so we have something of a spidey sense of when a topic is ready. When it's really something managers need to pay attention to.
And then we can weigh in, not say, oh look, there's this new thing, but really here's what it means. Here's what it means for managers. We don't always get it right. I mean, we wrote a fair amount about the metaverse. Maybe we were all ahead of our time on that, but no one's talking about the metaverse now.
But with AI, we started to do articles at a very high altitude. What does this mean? Positive, negative, what are the ethical considerations? We've evolved that. Now it's like: what are the use cases? Okay, so beyond the point where we're just talking about the theoretical advantages and disadvantages and opportunities and risks, but like, let's see what people are doing.
And that's something that's a service we can provide to show use cases somewhere in an industry, in a company that individuals are using that could be broadly instructive for our readership.
Ruairi Doyle
[7:10] And I do want to ask you a bit about your time as a journalist and bureau chief in Beijing and Moscow What, what sort of editorial instinct did those experiences give you and any interesting anecdotes you can share with us from, from that time on the road and those posts?
Adi Ignatius
[7:30] Sure. I was in China from 1987 to 1990. So that was the Tiananmen protests and then massacre, that was 1989.
So I was there. I learned that we usually don't know what is going on. What I mean by that is there was this moment of Great Hope in China in 1988 where it was a relatively reform-minded head of the Communist Party, Zhao Ziyang, and it really seemed like China could, could take any one of a number of paths.
Then the student demonstrations evolved into massive protests on Tiananmen Square, and it was exhilarating. CNN was broadcasting live. It was one of the first times you'd have that kind of blanket coverage of an unfolding event over many days. So, the whole world fell in love with these students.
And I would say as a journalist, I was guilty of that in some ways falling in love with the student movement, with the ideals. I mean, not that I wasn't trying to cover it objectively, but you're human and you sort of see this thing is profound history unfolding. And I think I, and a lot of people lost perspective that things don't always have a happy ending.
And it you need to think about where the power is, where the money is, where the leverage is, and not get caught up either too optimistically or pessimistically about what you're seeing before you, because these stories have many, many chapters and that one ended really tragically.
In Russia, I'd say the highlight of my experience with Russia was interviewing Vladimir Putin with some colleagues at Time Magazine about 20 years ago when we made him person of the year. It was a controversial choice at that point. There were people who thought, ah, come on, this guy doesn't deserve that kind of treatment.
And I think we were right that he was formidable. I think we saw, then in the interview, who he was then is exactly who he is now. The grievances that he had then, or the grievances that he has now, and he's acted on some of them. But it was also just a tremendously rewarding experience to have three and a half hours with a guy who doesn't meet foreigners as much and doesn't meet the foreign press fund.
Ruairi Doyle
[9:59] And of course, that that experience, that foreign experience led you to HBR, which is now 103 years old, a little bit younger than the house that you're in. Not many business publications can say that. From your perspective, what has given HBR its longevity?
Adi Ignatius
[10:17] Yeah, that's a good question. I don't know for certain, I mean, look, the affiliation with Harvard Business School is critical, and that was our built-in advantage from day one. And it still is. But we're also very different from Harvard Business School. There are people, there are readers who don't want an academic explanation, who don't want a complicated framework. But they want the insights that come out of that. So that's what we do.
And, and we don't just publish obviously from HBS. We're independent editorially and we publish the best ideas in business no matter where they came from. But our focus is on the consumer. So, and not on, let's say the academic source of the ideas.
So, I think we've gotten good over the years at making complex ideas understandable. More importantly and most importantly, to make them practical, make them actionable. HBR is nobody's first read. So, we have to have clear value, kind of in each and every article that people read, so that they'll come back so that they'll subscribe, whatever it is.
So that I think depends on, we're not just describing ideas, but we are talking about how you – you as an individual, you as a company – can apply these ideas in your business and making those explanations accessible and understandable and actionable. So, I think keeping our eye on that, that that's who we are.
We're not a news organization. We're something else.
Ruairi Doyle
[11:46] You've talked a little bit about the practicality side of things, the accessibility side of content as well. HBR'S business model is based on charging for access to expert insights. Yet so many executives and thought leaders now share their expertise directly on LinkedIn, Substack, podcasts, and other channels.
How does HBR compete when so much professional insight is available today for free directly from the source?
Adi Ignatius
[12:14] We think about that all the time. And that is a challenge. We want people to be writing their best stuff for us. Honestly, I think that the people who do write for LinkedIn, Substack and elsewhere, many of them also wanna write for us.
And we have a high bar. I mean, there, there are publications, Forbes is one of them where you can essentially play and, and that's not us. We have a high bar to clear. And I think readers trust that if we publish something, it's real, it is evidence-based. It first state, it's kind of a proven response to what's out there.
So, I think people realize there is a value to publishing in Harvard Business Review that ideas get more attention with the, in credit of HBR and help people get more consulting gig. So yes, we worry about free good enough content out there, but we also think there is value because we have that high bar because people trust us. That the authors – most of the authors we want – want to publish with that because they perceive the value in Harvard.
Ruairi Doyle
[13:37] And of course, today, high bar, low bar. I'm not sure if there's an inverse, but it's certainly somewhat true today that it's a time where provocative, polarizing content is often spreading the fastest and generating the most engagement.
How do you and the team at HBR balance, relevance and neutrality for business audiences? And does that approach change across different channels that you use today?
Adi Ignatius
[14:05] Yeah that is the question in the moment. We certainly don't want to enter partisan politics. On the other hand, we don't want to be so apolitical that we're not covering. If 20 years from now you thought you were saying, look, 2025 was a really intense period in business – I wonder what HBR published. And if the answer was nothing, that would clearly be a dereliction of duty on our part.
So, I'm happy when we publish articles that, for example, would criticize a government policy as long as they're evidence-based that their research base that there, there's a really sort of fact-based argument. I'm not interested in ad hoc attacks on political leaders, on anybody, but quite happy to have HBR be a forum for people to discuss ideas.
The ideas may be controversial, but if you think about things. I don't know if you think of something like DEI, diversity, equity and inclusion. A couple years ago we would've been writing about DEI and that was part of the business landscape and, and there were attributes of DEI movement that that might've been unpopular.
But there was a general consensus that was part of what a healthy company focused on. Alright, so now that is under attack, particularly in the US. We're not going to run, our values don't flip depending on who's elected. We're kind of clear that the values we have are based on evidence.
And so, we'll publish things that are like, if you want to continue to pursue a program in your company that focuses on diversity, equity, and/or inclusion. Here's the playbook for that. Right? Here's the playbook that won't get you into legal trouble. It might be controversial because everything's controversial, so we try to be in the moment trying to help people who are struggling with the changes and to give them kind of direction in playbooks, depending on where they want to be, now that some of these things have become more complicated.
Ruairi Doyle
[16:29] And speaking of playbooks, you mentioned AI earlier. We have to talk about AI. We could talk about AI or tariffs, but let's talk about AI.
We're seeing more executives and thought leaders experiment with AI-generated insights, media brands are wrestling with how to integrate AI into their business models, to their readers. Where does HBR stand on AI? Not just as, developing content around AI and how business and managers need to work with AI. Are you seeing it as a tool for editorial efficiency, or do you think that it poses a risk to the credibility of your content?
Adi Ignatius
[17:09] Yeah, so we think about AI both in terms of submissions that we get, and then we think about AI in terms of how we can use it as a tool. And then we think about AI as a possible threat to our business model as it allows competition. So, I guess we think about AI a lot.
Look, we realize from the start you couldn't, some publications said authors may not use AI, like we will not permit that. And that just never made sense to me. That just seemed like saying authors may not use Google in the preparation of their work. We know people are going to use generative AI and responsible use will make their work better not worse. But we made it clear – clearer than we ever have that – that there's full responsibility on the author to make sure that what they hand in in the end is absolutely airtight sound. That AI hasn't introduced, well either plagiarism, but more importantly, hallucination that that somehow flips through unchecked. So, my sense of AI is hugely valuable. It it is not a fact-generating machine, and no one should think of it, is that it can be a great collaborative partner.
One by-product is: we're getting a lot more unsolicited manuscripts now, and I think that has to do with AI, that people who had big ideas or had done research that has had trouble writing, now AI sort of doing that for them. So for better or worse, we're getting more sufficient. But we created an AI bot of our own, HBR AI, a while ago.
I would call it a first-generation Q and A bot. It's built, there's a layer of our content that's on top of a large language model that allows you to ask questions, to search, to get if you, I don't know, how can I apply Michael Porter's great ideas in my company's strategy? Some very HBR questions like that. You'll, you'll get a very solid answer. You'll get links to articles if you want to do more. It's first generation, it's up there on our website. People are using it. It's fascinating to see what they are putting in the chat box too, so that we can learn from, we could learn from that what some of the most pressing problems are.
And then we have ambitions for a kind of a next generation AI bot that we hope to roll out as we can. And yeah, we use AI. I don’t know. I did a Q and A with somebody, and it was long, and it was complicated, and the transcript was all over the place and had a lot of author unintelligible notes and I couldn't face it.
I had to edit it down and I just couldn't deal with it because it seemed so daunting. And I ended up feeding it into one of the large language models and said turn this into a lively 1,200-word Q and A. And of course it did it in seconds. And, obviously, I had to go over it and make sure it was solid and hadn't introduced any problems, but it took something that was, it could take that task. I always have one task, like I check everything off my checklist. There's one thing I never deal with. Generative AI could be really good at helping you deal with that one thing you’ve been pushing aside and not dealing with whether it's a letter or a project or a, in this case, editing the Q and A.
Ruairi Doyle
[20:39] An incredibly helpful assistant if used responsibly as you say. Apart from AI, what other business or leadership trends are you seeing today, particularly those that affect the media and publishing industry?
Adi Ignatius
[20:54] Well, I mean. The big thing is just the confusion right now. The confusion is partly AI and the opportunities and threats that it poses, but more than that, it's the political and geopolitical uncertainty that this, you always have uncertainty, but this is maybe you always have hyper uncertainty.
This is hyper uncertainty. Uh, it's just, this is, nobody can remember living through a period that was this challenging, I mean, I spoke to one CEO who said, this is the most business unfriendly administration in the history of America. And what they meant by that is: business prefers certainty, even if certainty means regulation to uncertainty.
Will regulation happen tomorrow? Will it happen tomorrow, but then get repealed the day after tomorrow? So, I think, the major thing is people are trying to figure out how in the world do we continue to innovate? Do we think about supply chains? Do we think about partnerships? Do we think about investment in a situation that has just so many more question marks than usual?
And obviously the challenges are unique, but we have authors who have studied things like uncertainty, like how do you manage, how do you head, how do you think about. Thriving in a hyper uncertain environment. I think we have content that we can deliver that is not partisan or political necessarily in the current moment, but that provides wisdom that people can apply in this current moment.
Ruairi Doyle
[22:32] Yeah, I think I've heard the word uncertainty more times than I can remember in the last couple of months. And even I think the governor of the Bank of Canada gave an update recently, and I don’t know if they counted, in his 30-minute update he said uncertainty, I don’t know, was it 40 or 50 times? It's the word of the moment, but I really relate to the phrasing of hyper uncertainty.
Adi Ignatius
[22:58] And look, it's a cliche that, oh, businesses like certainty, but it's true. I mean, it's just really hard. America, whether you like what's happening in policy terms or not, we have a situation now where from one administration to the next, we dramatically flip flop. And that is difficult for our foreign partners. That is difficult for national and international business. And it's a byproduct of the partisan split we have. But it has, it takes a real toll on business for sure.
Ruairi Doyle
[23:34] So this is a great segue, I think, to talk about HBR Executive and helping leaders navigate a world of hyper uncertainty. The new platform is HBR Executive, and congratulations on your role as Editor-at-Large. Can you tell us a little bit about the vision behind HBR Executive and what gap does it fill that your existing content does not already do?
Adi Ignatius
[24:00] Yeah, I'm excited to talk about that. So, it is hard at the top. It is hard to be a leader and this is a product that is aimed at CEOs and their top teams. So, at the C-suite. It's lonely at the top. It's hard at the top. And it's particularly hard right now.
So, what we are trying to do is connect with this high-level audience segment to connect with the C-suite and share insights from the people they need to speak to kind of navigate this tough environment. I talk to people in the C-suite, and they say, look, it's hard for us to ask for information.
They don't want to appear weak or indecisive. So, it's difficult at that level to continue to learn, to continue to get insight. So, the challenge for us is to present insight – playbooks, actionable ideas, interviews with people who really know what they're talking about – the challenge is to present that in a really, valuable, in some ways, concise form for these busy senior executives to take advantage of.
The need to me is clear. Leadership is hard. It's particularly hard right now, and we think we can roll out a product across a series of platforms that will really help them right now in this time.
Ruairi Doyle
[25:41] Sounds like a fantastic resource. I can relate to some of the themes that you're talking about.
It's true that HBR has always been a go-to or the go-to resource for executives in this realm. But now we are seeing more and more media brands entering this space and actively launching their own C-suite focused membership education learning programs. What do you see as HBR Executive’s differentiators in that competitive environment?
Adi Ignatius
[26:10] Yeah, I mean, it is a crowded space. You're absolutely right. On the other hand, our audience is already the C-suite. I mean, not exclusively, but I'm sure we have more C-suite based subscribers than anybody else. More senior executive subscribers than anybody else. So, the question is, what is the gap, and can we fill the kind of knowledge gap and learning gap that people have at that level?
So once again, what we do and what's always been our differentiator and will be here, is the applicability of the ideas. So, we wouldn't, we wouldn't write an essay that says it's uncertain out there. We might write an essay that says it's uncertain out there, and here's what you do about it. So, these challenges don't have to be paralyzing, it's uncertain. What do you do about your supply chain? Or if the talent equation, the power equation between talent and management has shifted. Or what do you do about that?
So, I think a focus on practicality and not ideas that we're just pulling out of the air because they seem reasonable, but that are based again, on, that are evidence-based, that are based on a surge, that are, that are kind of best practice or that leaders of companies can talk about how they applied those ideas themselves in their work.
I think that gives us a real. What leaders tell us all the time is they want to learn from their peers, right? How they handled some thorny pain point. It doesn't have to be the exact problem that these readers are facing, but they like to see their peers in action. How they kind of think through a challenge and how they got to the other side.
It's like watching game tape and just: ah, okay. So this is, this is what it looks like when companies get it right. So I think, look, we have access to Harvard Business School. We have access to all the other authors who are part of our stable. And I think, with access to those people, I think we can really provide high level differentiated content.
And, and we have this built-in audience that knows us, that trusts us and that we think will be hungry for more.
Ruairi Doyle
[28:37] Can you give us a sneak peek of what the features might be in the platform, what forms of content you're going to have in there?
Adi Ignatius
[28:43] Yeah, so, so there will be a weekly newsletter, and you could argue that the last thing the world needs is another newsletter. So, the pressure is on to make it good. But again, it'll be a newsletter that tries to capture the movement and again. Helpful, provide applicable ideas. We'll probably feature a senior leader every week as well, who does a kind of how I did it, how they solved the particular challenge.
We will have a series of playbooks. That will take different forms, but it'll be advice from leaders who have handled sort of big challenges that a lot of our readers are facing. We're developing some playbooks from our content. Probably using AI to distill multiple HBR articles into a kind of single, merged playbook that kind of offers step by step, which you can do. In this situation, we'll have a series of masterclass videos that'll be more skill building, the skills that leaders need – whether it's how to be an empathetic leader or how to lead in the age of generative AI. Videos aimed at teaching skills and reinforcing skills.
And then we'll have a series of live events. Initially mostly virtual, but some live events. And we have some, we have some other thoughts that I can't talk about now for sort of a stage two, but those will be some of the things that we roll out stage one, which we're planning for late May, coming right up.
Ruairi Doyle
[30:29] Exciting. Sounds compelling and for what it's worth as a leader reader, the world always needs a new quality newsletter. There's a gap for that.
Adi Ignatius
[30:40] Yeah, I hope so.
Ruairi Doyle
[30:41] So, Adi you've had the opportunity to interview some of the most influential leaders in business and policy. I'm sure you've had moments where a CEO or somebody has said something to you and you've thought, geez, I need to remember that.
What's one of the most surprising or most valuable insights you've learned about leadership over the years?
Adi Ignatius
[31:02] Yeah, well, I have a couple, a couple short ones. If I can do a couple that I think about a lot. So, one is from Jack Welch, who was, was lauded as one of the great CEOs and. Became maybe more of a, then became definitely more of a controversial figure later in his life.
But he had a lot of good distilled, almost aphorisms that were, that stick with me and are valuable. But one of them is, you might be in a job that you think isn't... Know that you deserve more, you should be somewhere else. Or you're frustrated that you're heading this team instead of something else you wanted.
And his advice was wherever you are, wherever you land, make that the coolest part of the company. In other words, that's where you are. So just throw your energy in it and make it the most happening part of a business. I love that. The extent to which one has that agency, I think that's a really good bit of advice.
But the other is Satya Nadella, the CEO of Microsoft, who I interviewed and asked what the key to innovation was. And I loved his answer. He said, the source of innovation is empathy. It's the ability to put yourself in others' shoes, to understand their, their pain point and problems, to understand their unmet needs.
And it's sort of another way of saying focus on the customer, but it was such a kind of human and inspiring way to think about that, that the key to innovation is really all about empathy.
Ruairi Doyle
[32:38] Any advice that you have for business writers, journalists starting out in their craft today?
Adi Ignatius
[32:46] Yeah, I mean, I'm not down on the future of journalism the way some of my colleagues are.
I mean, I do worry about, what's happening to the truth in the ways that everybody does – that there seems to be a truth for every individual, and I'm not comfortable with that. But I do think at least a segment of the population will always identify – seek out and identify trustworthy journalism that in whatever way makes the world a better place – because we understand it better, because it proposes solutions, because it uncovers stuff that the perpetrators didn't want uncovered. So, I think that will always be with us.
So, I don't know. I don't think I have particularly valuable insights. I do think if you go in this business, it's competitive. Even though journalism doesn't pay particularly well and it has those constraints, they just got to, it's the competitive space. So, you've got to hustle, and I guess that means publish wherever you can. If you are a student aspiring to enter the journalism field, public locally, publish in your university paper, just publish. Because people just aren't going to know your ability to write and to think without you having published things.
And then, don't be afraid to find an area of expertise. I find a lot of journalists, they want to be generalists, or they want to, I don't know, whatever their ambition is, they sometimes don't realize that to get there, find a level of expertise that makes you valuable. It might be covering an industry or covering a topic, developing expertise in whatever it is. It could be sustainability, it could be sports, whatever it is that sort of floats your boat, find an area of expertise, find a job, and then cover it and then, covering that area gives you access to people, gives you access to sources, makes you become an expert in that field. And that's what this is.
That that's how you learn to be a journalist. Not just sort of taking six weeks to write big kind of overview topics, but you need to find your relative area of expertise. And the world goes around in a cycle. In this field that you think is not that interesting, suddenly it will become the most interesting thing in the world because of some unexpected news development and will pay off. So, I guess it's hustle, work hard, publish wherever you can and find your niche, find your area of expertise.
Ruairi Doyle
[35:26] Great advice. And finally, to end off on a question that we like to ask all of our guests on perspectives. Imagine a parallel universe where you weren't running HBR or shaping business thought leadership or interviewing all these influential people. What expected career or passion might you have been pursuing?
Adi Ignatius
[35:48] I would be the commissioner of baseball. I would automate the strike zone immediately. I would adapt some of the innovations from the Savannah Bananas, which is almost like a circus show form of baseball that you can find on social media if you haven't seen it. This could enliven the game and what, and as part of my deal, they would let me play shortstop from time to time with the Boston Red Sox.
Ruairi Doyle
[36:15] Sounds like a good deal. Yeah. So, hopefully there's still time. Adi, thank you for your time. It's been a pleasure. Thank you very much for that. Really enjoyed the chat.
Adi Ignatius
[36:26] All right. Thanks, Ruairi. It was fun to do it. Thank you.
Ruairi Doyle
[36:29] And that's a wrap on our latest episode of The Perspectives Podcast. Thank you very much, Adi, for joining us. And thank you all so much for tuning in. We bring you new episodes every month, each one featuring a different leader in the world of publishing, so be sure to subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or YouTube to catch the latest.
